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Top Ramen
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Virginia
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 Posted: Thu Mar 9, 2006 9:19 am Post subject: other gospels |
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I have read the gospel of thomas. it reminds me of eastern mysticism. I also read that a christian community in the south of india was founded by st. thomas the apostle. Anyone have any thoughts about this topic.
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Anthony
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 1542
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: Re: other gospels |
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| Top Ramen wrote: |
| I have read the gospel of thomas. it reminds me of eastern mysticism. I also read that a christian community in the south of india was founded by st. thomas the apostle. Anyone have any thoughts about this topic. |
Is the Gospel of Thomas Gnostic? |
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Jason
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the Gospel of Thomas is Gnostic.
If you want to read Gnostic gospels that are not in the Bible buy the Nag Hammadi Library, translated by James Robinson.
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missliz
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I have read the Gospel of Mary Magdalene (a versiion with commentary) and highly reccomend it! I also have read "The Secret Teachings of Jesus" which is 4 gnostic gospels--the secret book of James, the gospel of Thomas, the Book of Thomas and The Secret Book of John. Again, another recoomend read. |
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Anthony
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I've heard recommended the Gospel of James but I can't locate any information about it. |
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Top Ramen
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I avoided the term gnostic, because that oftem implies a negative. What are your thought?
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"Freedom is actually a bigger game than power. Power is about what you can control. Freedom is about what you can unleash." - Harriet Rubin |
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Jason
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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I don't consider Gnostic a negative word. It is mostly Catholic dogma that brands it heretical which makes it negative sounding.
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Anthony
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 1542
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Top Ramen wrote: |
| I avoided the term gnostic, because that oftem implies a negative. What are your thought? |
May I ask why you think it is a negative term? |
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BillSamuel
Joined: 06 Aug 2002
Posts: 772
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: |
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A couple of things about Gnosticism from the Religious Tolerance Web site. First:
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| The movement has been composed of many groups with differing beliefs. One common concept is that there are two Gods: one Supreme Father who is from the "good" spirit world, and one Demiurge (the Jehovah in the Bible) who created the evil material world. Salvation comes through knowledge and liberation from the material, earthly world to attain a higher level of spirituality. |
Clearly the belief in these two Gods is not compatible with Quakerism as it has been understood through most of its history, nor with the canonical gospels.
Second:
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| Gnostics believe that they have secret knowledge about God, humanity and the rest of the universe of which the general population was unaware. |
It has been a main tenet of Quakerism from the beginning that the divine is accessible to all of us. The belief in a group with secret knowledge is fundamentally anathema to the Quaker understanding.
There are other aspects of Gnosticism, notably the focus on experiential knowledge of God, which are much more compatible with Quakerism. But the traditional package of Gnosticism, taken as a whole, seems a strange one for Quakers to be attracted to.
Today there is a lot of sloppiness in references to gnosticism, with many people considering themselves attracted to gnosticism not holding to the two concepts highlighted above. But if we look at Gnosticism through history, we have to look at all the key elements, not just cherry pick those that seem attractive.
The Gospel of Thomas contains much that is also in the canonical gospels. But it also contains some material which is truly bizarre. It's not hard to understand why most of the early Christian community rejected it.
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Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, MD, USA
Co-Coordinator, Friends in Christ |
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missliz
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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I love reading these Gospels because we do not have all the evidence of what happened to leave these books out.
By reading them I feel I am getting more of the "full picture" and not just one side, which I feel is always important.
The Gospel of Mary Magdalane speaks a lot about a vision of Jesus....really powerful! |
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Anthony
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 1542
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I am grateful for Bill's post that clarifies some of the issues about Gnosticism. My understanding is that there are spiritual laws of God that are universal, and some that are only understood vaguely. Surely, these laws are not limited to any one religion or system of beliefs as each catch only a glimpse of truth as through a glass dimly. Can it fully be accepted that these belief systems and religions have the whole of the truth, perceived by fallible human beings, and scribed likewise. To use the one to help understand the other (are not the laws of God constant, fixed and universal) is helpful for many of us. When studying a subject that I find difficult to understand, I will read one text book and then another written by a different author, and the one will add clarity to the other. Of course, one must know what are the basic common principles so not to wonder off course. The Law of Love has many derivatives that are universal; Christianity did not originate compassion, patience, kindness, generosity, etc., etc. (I'm not sure about forgiveness) but I acknowledge that the search for knowledge and understanding of all things spiritual is, by many, subordinate to an acceptance by faith of Jesus as one's Saviour. However, some of us find it very difficult to resist the urge not to attempt to understand intellectually what many accept by faith alone, and this can be frustrating; perhaps, those who don't have this need for what has been called 'intellectual integrity' are blessed. |
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Adam
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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BillSamuel
Joined: 06 Aug 2002
Posts: 772
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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That site indicates it's about Jesus' secret teachings. They must be oral, not written, it asserts. Nevertheless, they have a site writing it down and maintaining it is the truth. And they say this is "logic." And how do they know what Jesus taught orally and was not written down? I really have trouble seeing how this can be taken seriously.
In response to Anthony, Truth is not a set of doctrines which can neatly be written down and expressed in coherent words. It is beyond that. The doctrinal formulations can describe some aspects of Truth. At best, they are incomplete. This is not to say they aren't useful. We need to be able to talk and write about aspects of Truth. And some doctrinal formulations provide a better picture of Truth than others. Some may be way offbase. We are surely wrong if we think we've got it all neatly boxed up.
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Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, MD, USA
Co-Coordinator, Friends in Christ |
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james
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 1108
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| BillSamuel wrote: |
| That site indicates it's about Jesus' secret teachings. They must be oral, not written, it asserts. Nevertheless, they have a site writing it down and maintaining it is the truth. And they say this is "logic." And how do they know what Jesus taught orally and was not written down? |
The same thoughts occurred to me visiting this site.
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James Riemermann
www.nontheistfriends.org
www.liberalquakers.org |
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Adam
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Bill, I think you make a very good point - I sure feel there must be an answer, someone broke rules.  |
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