QuakerInfo.com Forum

[Anthony]

[Anthony]

[Anthony]

Hi

I have been considering this for a little while.

How we demonstrate respect may vary according to one’s understanding of what respect actually means. Respect includes, ‘to avoid violation of or interference with…a willingness to show consideration or appreciation…state of being regarded with honour or esteem.’ Is anyone able to explain how a respect for animals can be in accord with slaughtering them unnecessarily?

I do not wish to feel anything other than ‘absolutely certain’ that Jesus would not condone or sanction the way we treat animals today, and I see no reason why such a certainty is to be feared.

I agree that Jesus would address himself primarily to the need for human salvation but I hope that this would be inclusive of the need for the kingdom of love and peace to be inclusive of lesser creatures.

The psychopathic state of mind that harasses and tortures, maims, abuses, exploits and slaughters humans without conscience is the same state of mind that inflicts suffering and death on animals. Violence is violence; aspiring to live in accord with a divine principle of peace, gentleness and non-violence requires honest endeavour and cannot be selective or conditional upon personal desire or preference.

When did the Christian pacifist tradition commence and when did it cease, as pacifism is certainly not an existing Christian value. It seems that Christian pacifism was in evidence before Constantine but ended when he became Emperor and converted to Christianity. We have reason to believe that many Christians were pacifist vegetarians for the first three hundred years after Jesus. There is documentation that James the brother of Jesus was vegetarian; and many early Church Fathers and historians have vouched for a vegetarian Christianity.

I have not claimed that Christian tradition and scripture ‘require’ vegetarianism as a necessary relationship between the two-legged and four legged. What I am saying is that love, respect, peace and non-violence, kindness, gentleness and compassion are spiritual qualities of an all-loving God – are they not? God and His Creation are One, Universal and Good. It must of necessity include and embrace the whole of creation and not just the more intelligent, superior species. It is a relationship not only between the two legged and the four legged but, also, with our God of Love.

The human species has been designated steward of all the earth and all that creatures that live upon it; good stewardship requires protection and respect and not bloody violence, torture, deprivation and slaughter. We have to ask ourselves honestly, why we allow this to happen, particularly, when for many nations, dependence on the exploitation and abuse of the animal kingdom is no long necessary or essential.

I can understand why is seems that we must first be concerned about human violence before we concern ourselves about animals, but I suggest that the two go hand-in-hand. I once read of someone who was asked why she spent so much time and effort on protecting animals when there was so much violence, anger and bloodshed in the world. Her answer was that she liked to start at the beginning.

What I suggest should be realised is that the violent, callous, cruel and selfish use of animals is caused by the same mind as that which inflicts such horrors on humans. Love knows no distinctions or limits to its expression and is available in abundance to those who accept and open themselves to it. Love heals and is unconditional - it is all-inclusive, and should not be considered discriminatory.

True spirituality aspires to meet an ideal of goodness, kindness, love, compassion and mercy toward all sentient beings, particularly those that suffer mental, physical and emotion pain. This includes the innocent and vulnerable, those that cannot protect themselves or protest on their own behalf. Those without a voice; therefore, we must protest on their behalf, in the name of an all loving God and His Peaceable Kingdom. Quakers believe that this kingdom is available NOW and not in some distant future.

Should we not be endeavouring to realize the values of this kingdom in our lives by establishing a peaceable relationship with the animal kingdom so that we are living the ideal and promise of the Peaceable Kingdom? If not, then we must live with our denial as long as we can.

Incidentally, George Fox is on record as objecting to hunting; the following link offers some Quaker insights into hunting.

http://www.worldspirituality.org/quaker-hunting.html
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"There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings, but they are communities like you" The Koran 6:38

[michaeldavidjay]

"Pacifism" did not cease.... and a strict following of the "just war theory" suggests that there really is no such thing. To be honest, its hard for me to find a time when pacifism was not celebrated in the church -- though, much of the time it is not encouraged (unless you are a splinter group such as the Mennonites/Brethren, (et c.) Friends... I learned the Nazarene officially recognize pacifism as a Christian position (they are informed they can be conscientious objectors in church material.)

I do not know if pacifism, or a vegetarian diet were every mainstream, just that people who practiced these values were respected... I do seem to remember that Francis wanted to see the crusades end peacefully.... he seemed like he may have been a practicing pacifist -- and as a practice, pacifism seems to have been encouraged.
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Do Friends speak to today's condition, or are we only a historical footnote?

[Anthony]

[Anthony]

The spirit is alive in Bolivia - what a wonderful story...where there's a will there's a way.

Last night for five Bolivia lions and a baboon

Tue Sep 22 2009

After their last ever circus performance, five lions and their baboon companion prepared for the greatest journey of their lives: their final destination, a wildlife sanctuary in the United States.

They will be able to retire their circus tricks and live in relative freedom.

All six animals have been working for the circus in Bolivia for years, but in July this year a new law came into effect prohibiting the use of both wild and domestic animals in circus performances.

Circus owners have 12 months to comply with the new regulations.

The first leg of the journey for these animals is a 14-hour overland journey from the eastern city of Santa Cruz to Cochabamba, where their quarantine will be carried out.

"The world has other laws, in other countries where circuses aren't allowed to have wild animals in their shows, only domestic ones. Bolivia is the first country in the world to have this kind of law and it is obviously a pioneer in animal rights. Because it they have to break the spirit of a lion so it acts on command, they are doing the same thing with a dog as well," said SOS Animal Foundation director, Susana del Carpio.

For those interested, there is a video online but I can't link it.
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"There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings, but they are communities like you" The Koran 6:38

[Anthony]

I thought this may be of interest:

http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/general/livestock-producers-must-face-religion-argument/1723995.aspx?src=enews
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"There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings, but they are communities like you" The Koran 6:38

[Anthony]

For those interested this may be interesting:

http://www.christianvegetarianarchive.blogspot.com/
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"There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings, but they are communities like you" The Koran 6:38

[Chip]

Thanks Anthony. Vegan here.
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Take what is given
Give what is taken

[Anthony]

The 600 hundred year dancing bear trade has ended in India. How wonderful what can be achieved when the spirit of freedom and compassion for all creatures is acted upon.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AnimalRescueVideos?gl=GB&hl=en-GB#p/u/1/vmbecz4pJSI
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"There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings, but they are communities like you" The Koran 6:38

[Chip]

Now that was a good thing.
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Take what is given
Give what is taken

[Speckled Pots]

[BetsyP]

Anthony, I loved your posting above. In Genesis, we are told that God gave Adam dominion over the animals. To have dominion over something means to have responsibility for it! This is not an invitation or permission to abuse those given into one's care.

I became a vegetarian on Jan. 1, 1976 after reading Frances More Lappe's splendid book, Diet for a Small Planet.

We MUST help others look beyond the immediate animal issues. My family assumed that I became a vegetarian because I love animals. While I do and always have loved animals (and I'm very active in dog rescue here in north central KY), my motivation was the best way we can use the earth's resources to feed the world's millions. A meat-based diet is selfish and unrealistic.

We see daily the damage done to the rain forests because land is being cleared to raise beef!

With the multiple health concerns related to the consumption of meat, the damage done to the environment in raising meat, and cruelty of most of the meat producing set ups, I don't know how people of conscience can continue to eat meat.

peace & blessings,
BetsyP

[Anthony]

[Chip]

My choice to become vegan was first out of a caring for the animals. I couldn't love them and kill them at the same time. So my first reason was/is to love the animals. All the wonderful benefits that flow from veganism, I count as the fruit born of loving the animals. I think that if we start out loving the rain forest, the water in our streams, the air we breathe..... it's like the pebble dropped in the still pool. As the ripples spread they affect the whole pool. So dropping the pebble is the important thing. Which part of the pool we're focused on is only the door we're led to walk through. And God will lead us from where we are.
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Take what is given
Give what is taken