QuakerInfo.com Forum

michaeldavidjay · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 452

there are religions that do not take converts, but only people who were born into the religion. Others, such as some Jewish and some Christian groups do so rarely they are not quite sure what to do when new people come in.

Proselyte = New comer. Communities either welcome new comers, or they reject them. Some communities more or less actively recruit.

By the way, I agree that its not a bad thing to 'invite'. I feel its better to assume someone can be part of the community than to become an exclusive and unwelcoming community that expresses a smug superiority.
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Anthony · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 1542

When I refer to proselytising I am not thinking of someone discussing or debating their religion with someone who asks (this would be quite acceptable and expected) but someone, in the manner of Christians, who actively seeks converts on the streets, door to door, posters, leaflets or someone who peppers their conversation with religious affirmations. As far as I have seen they are just content to worship and live their lives according to Islam and leave the rest of us alone, unless we upset them or show a respectful interest.

Pulpculture · Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Posts: 564 Location: England

michaeldavidjay · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 452

smug superior, and unwelcoming can also describe some Quaker meetings.
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Do Friends speak to today's condition, or are we only a historical footnote?

Pulpculture · Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Posts: 564 Location: England

Sylvanus · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:45 am Post subject:

Anthony · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 1542

I have never witnessed any Muslim proselyzing, ever.

Pulpculture · Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Posts: 564 Location: England

To summarise then - some of us live amongst Muslims and find it a real problem whilst others here have never had a single issue with it and couldn't care less. Some of us find Muslims asking us to join their religion a real problem and are uncomfortable with it whilst others here have never encountered this (many of us not even once.)

Anyone mind if I get back to the original subject matter? - call me old fashioned and all that Smile

Have you ever wondered what goes through the mind of an Iraqi insurgent? Why would someone who has led a normal life up until that point wake up and want to risk their own life to rid their community of US or British troops? Big decision to make (well it would be for me and most people.)

Have a watch of this whilst it's still on iPlayer for the next 30 days..........

BBC

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I said don't forget Burma!

michaeldavidjay · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 452

I've never experienced a 'problem'. I have not seen anyone claim to have experienced a problem. Any Dawah I've personally experienced has been non-offensive. I have heard... um... crazy Islamic preaching which was abusive and offensive -- but, that is hardly mainstream... and I live in a place where people are free be jerks in public, so we learn not to be overly offended when they exercise that freedom.

I find your phrase 'some people have had a problem' rather curious.... and, actually a little offensive. Who claimed to have a problem???

I also think its strange that a couple people are accusing entire Muslim communities of neglecting a named religious duty. I wonder what it is about the wider community that causes them to do so.
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Do Friends speak to today's condition, or are we only a historical footnote?

Anthony · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 1542

michaeldavidjay · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 452

Muslims have a religious duty to invite people to Islam called Dawah. Your suggestion that they do not do this is a suggestion that the whole community is failing in its religious duty -- that is quite an accusation.

I cannot imagine a reason WITHIN the Muslim community that would cause them to neglect this duty... so I guess the reason is hostility in the outside community.

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On the other hand, there is a movement in Islam encouraging people to practice Dawah politely. Perhaps you only notice if it strikes you as rude?
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Do Friends speak to today's condition, or are we only a historical footnote?

Anthony · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 1542

michaeldavidjay · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 452

http://www.quaker.org.uk/outreach

Not treated as a duty -- but encouraged. (and, even though 'conversion is not a goal'... um... there is a hope that some new people will go to meeting) For me, this is an attempt at proselytizing.

By the way -- the last time I heard anything like loudspeakers on the street corner, it was a secular event (politics). People are often tempted to say that a political opinion is religious, but bluntly -- that is for political, and not religious reasons. The last religious group I've seen sharing their message loudly and offensively did not accept converts. (people asked, and were turned down)... the group feels they are apocalyptic prophets calling down judgment on a world beyond the chance of salvation.

I guess once or twice, I've seen religious services in a green space (the group of course paid the required fees, and received the proper assembly permit)... but, again this is not what you describe. If people have anything offensive to say -- they put it on the radio, or on rare occasions do a mass mailing.

I suppose you and I live in different worlds.
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Do Friends speak to today's condition, or are we only a historical footnote?

Anthony · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 1542