QuakerInfo.com Forum

[CelticNorth]

Friend Kevin and Friend Dan, the closest translation I have encountered over Paul's use of the word "arenokoites" is that it breaks down into "arenvos"- male human being, and "koites"- bedder, i. e a male human being bedder. Like todys useage of subsititing the word "gay' for "homosexual", I think there are enough dots to connect Paul's meaning to our current understanding and usage of the word homosexualtiy as his meaning. I question the practice of attempting to discern what is not clearly stated, as topposed o readily acknowledge that which is already clearly stated. I have proposed before that when pursuing the meaning of what is not clearly stated about the validity of homosexual unions, one can just as easily argue that since polyandry or polymory were also not clearly addressed, they must also be equal and valided by scripture through the same mechanismb by which those who seek to validate homosexuality. But here is an interesting news brief: Californians are in for a shock starting in January, with the enactment of pro-gay legislation, Senate Bill 48, which will require all schools in California to teach "the historic contributions of homosexuals", but which also " prohibits teaching that reflects adversly on homosexuality, bisexuality or transgenderism". This may be the first education bill in the Unites States which attempts to normalize homosexuality in the classroom and silence opposing views. I find it "dispiriting" that under such an arrangement the veiws of some are permitted, with the designed intent to stifle opposing views. That is the political world of California Democrats, where merging civil society and religious viewpoints makes about as much sense as when the Kansas State School Board wanted to teach creationism as a science. That we have the right here to debate and discern this topic is one not left on the table, come January, for either the students in California schools or their parents. SB 48 also contains a "no opt out" rule, which means parents cannot excuse their children from "state" teachings on the subject. Like the old "School Prayer" debate, we now have politicians who turn their backs on lessons learned fromthat sordid contest of religion and politics, and who now want to glorify and normalize homosexuality in public schools. I think school Prayer needs to be institued before classes are taught on this subject, if only to firm up the resolve of students so they don't vomit in disgust over what adults in the State of California have done to their classroom educations. Plato will not be heard; nor Seneca; nor Jesus; nor Moses; nor Krisna; nor Buddah, but sexual mores will be taught by "the state". When SB 48 arrives in Ohio, it may behoove all Buckeyes to read the fine print.

[kevin roberts]

[punkrainbow]

[james]

While I see where Kevin is coming from and appreciate any Biblical interpretation that is in the spirit of love and compassion, scripture is not where i look for my guidance. I embrace the scriptural lessons that feel right to me, and reject those that don't. And...here's the kicker...neither do you, McGuffey. I continue to be baffled as to why you would dig for justification within a source you clearly and admittedly don't hew to yourself.
_________________
James Riemermann
www.nontheistfriends.org
www.liberalquakers.org

[CelticNorth]

Friend James, I was looking at scriptural support, or lack of support, regarding homosexuality and affirming same sex unions becasue the debate that was going on within the OYM and Quarterly seemed to set Christian scripture as one of the ground rules; the Old Testament was excluded, Levitcus referances banned, and I was demonstating that Greek Philosophy, through Plato, "could" have informed and influenced the writings of Paul ( and hence referances in Timothy and Romans ) in eqaul proportion as he was also influenced by the Torah, which in turn was influenced by ancient Egyptian religious thought. Paul was Saul before his own conversion. You are correct that I do not believe in a strict interpetation of scripture, Christian, Jewish, Hindu or otherwise- I am not a literalist. However, I do believe that within the inspired writings and records of the past, we see the foundations and thought within which lay the basis for the foundations of our present moral, ethical and legal systems. We should repectfully give audience to Paul- and Plato- as well as to Hume, Locke, Descartes and others. Friend Kevin is a blessing in this long thread of exchanges for his learned insights and readings of Christian texts, which is where the final ideological battleground of the OYM was fought, it seems. Plato was not invited, although I do think he deserved a seat at the table.

[punkrainbow]