QuakerInfo.com Forum

[Top Ramen]

There has been considerable talk in regards to the gay marriage referendum in our meeting - scheduled for the November ballot in Virginia. It is designed to get the conservative voters to the polls. Members of our meeting indicate that straight members of the meeting should be concerned with the legislation because it will pertain to all partnerships and contractual agreements. I am against it because it is wrong to make a segment of the population 2nd class citizens. If it has other negative consequences that is secondary. It surprises me when members of our meeting assume that straight members don't support their liberties. I know that I do.
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"Freedom is actually a bigger game than power. Power is about what you can control. Freedom is about what you can unleash." - Harriet Rubin

[Shay]

For those out of the US:
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0706/341378.html

Ugh- why is it so much easier to get folks to vote against things than for things, anyway? Sometimes the US citizen's negativity in these matters depresses me to all get-out.

[Top Ramen]

It perplexes me that people feel so passionate that gay people shouldn't marry. I really can only understand it in the most cynical. I really don't get it. I can understand that they don't like gay people and that they think they are sinful. I understand why they feel and think that way, although I disagree. I just can't see why allowing them to marry is the line in the sand.
_________________
"Freedom is actually a bigger game than power. Power is about what you can control. Freedom is about what you can unleash." - Harriet Rubin

[Patrocles]

I suppose that there are three motives which have not directly to do with gays themselves.

1. People regard the classical heterosexual family as a kind of ideal and feel that that ideal would be dequalified if it was equalized with other forms of living-together.

2. "Marriage" is common ground between state and churches, and people feel that the state interferes in matters of their religion.

3. People resent the way courts and judges (as upper class institutions) can change the society without the consent of the people - only by redefining the words of the law.

[Anthony]

Is 'marriage' not a misnomer for a civil ceremony that permits the same rights in law that married couples are entitled to; and a blessing of their relationship, by an ordained minister? I feel sure there is a difference between this and a marriage between opposite sexes.

In Friendship

[Shay]

[Anthony]

[missliz]

I find it funny that people are trying to put limits on Love.

The world needs more love as it is....

[Anthony]

I found the following statement whilst exploring the web page about civil gay partnerships. The web page is entitled: The Christian Institute: Christian Influence in a Secular World.

I consider it to be a blatant piece of misinformation. I note that the source is not referenced. It find it offensive and personally untrue and intended to give credence to a bigoted agenda.

'It is often said that homosexuals need civil rights because they are 'born gay and can't change'. But this claim simply cannot be backed up by evidence - homosexuality is not a fixed trait like race or sex. For example, a 2003 study by a leading psychiatrist who supports gay rights found that homosexuality could become 'predominantly heterosexual through psychotherapy. 84% of the homosexual and lesbians in the study became heterosexual by the end of the study. No amount of psychotherapy can ever change a person's race.'

http://www.christian.org.uk/soregs/sornewsletter_apr06.pdf

In Friendship

[Shay]

[Laurence17]

In the UK the Civil Partnerships Act uses the same words as the Matrimony Acts, throughout. The only difference is the title Civil Partnership, which was adopted rather than the word Marriage, to try to placate the 'Christian' Institute and rightwing fundamentalist christians, here. But everyone else call it marriage.And sayings "getting married,"

My partner Michael are tying the knot later this year, and and having meeting for worship under the care of Meeting. It is also our 33 rd anniversary this year ! We made vows to each other 33 years ago !
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Abwoon : divine progenitor, breathing mindfulness through poor in spirit and the resonating realm of ruach

[Top Ramen]

Laurence17

congrats on 33 years! ......and they said it would never last. lol
_________________
"Freedom is actually a bigger game than power. Power is about what you can control. Freedom is about what you can unleash." - Harriet Rubin

[jean from phoenix]

One thing to watch about these referendums is that they do not always just affect gay marriage. For instance the one in my state, Arizona, would have a negative effect on domestic violence law in the case of an unmarried couple (such as a boyfriend and girlfriend) regardless of gender.

jean

[Patrocles]

@ Anthony,

the source you missed is: Spitzer, R L, ‘Can Some Gay Men and
Lesbians Change Their Sexual Orientation?
200 Participants Reporting a Change from
Homosexual to Heterosexual Orientation’,
Archives of Sexual Behavior, 32(5), 2003, page
411

Basically, Spitzer's study collects people whose sexual orientation shifted (more or less) but he didn't maintain that psychotherapy was apt to produce such an effect.

[Laurence17]

why try to interfere with anyone's affections ?

It offends me that anyone would consider it in 2006. I was subjected to electric shock 'therapy' in my teens and so I know from my own experience how wrong that is.

The majority culiture have a lot of work to do on yourselves and the world y o u have created.

You receive from lgbt folk lavishly--ever considered saying Thanks ?

You have much to laern from the lgbt communities.

(Ever wonder why we have never used terrorism to get our rights--even in the penal days ?_)
_________________
Abwoon : divine progenitor, breathing mindfulness through poor in spirit and the resonating realm of ruach