QuakerInfo.com Forum

[XABI]

I suppose this may seem like a weird question, but in the religion I was brought up in, there was a strict rule against the use of alcohol and tobacco, as well as tea and coffee. I was wondering if Quakers have, historically, had similar rules.
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What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
-Micah 6:8

[Shay]

Historically, there have been dry and not-so-dry Quaker sections. There's mostly been a call for moderation, and most Meetinghouses I know of do not allow alcohol on the premises. (I understand this is true for other houses of worship as well, since many are meeting places for AA groups.)

Bill answered the question a little more fully here.

[Taogypsy]

[ScottK]

FROM OHIO YEARLY MEETING FAITH AND PRACTICE (Remembering that it starts with "these things are not a rule..."):
It is well known that the use of alcoholic drinks affects the mind and body harmfully and is a factor in a great number of crimes. We urge total abstinence from the use or handling of any intoxicants, not only on the ground that our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, but also on the principle set forth by the Apostle, "If meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend" (1 Cor. 8:13).

We wish to stress also that this applies not only to the use of alcoholic beverages but to narcotics, tobacco, or anything that is harmful to the individual.

[XABI]

Thank you all for sharing your insights. One thing I like about Quakerism is the freedom to decide for myself what is right for me. I tend to think modesty in all things is a good rule, and I like to have a drink with dinner on occasion. I just didn't know if it is okay for a Quaker to do that. It sounds like it depends on the meeting that you attend.

Nicole

[Pulpculture]

[ScottK]

Actually, I (ScottK) did not write any of that post that you quote me, I was just passing along the Faith and Practice statement. Also, you have to use the discernment that God's Spirit gives you to know that we are not talking about water, and whatever! Is a funny thought, though, Popculture. Traditionally, Quakers helped lead the prohibitionist movement, for better or worse. I think it fair to say that all Quakers at least see the dangers of taking too much alcohol, and some take that more literally to mean that we avoid it all together...but certainly a drink is NOT in itself an indication of not following Quaker practice! Live by the Spirit and not the letter of the law. I choose to avoid, but not make a big deal of it, and mostly I abstain in any public social ocassions as a testimony of my faith. It gets conversation started for sure!
Scott

[Little Nell]

Many faiths disapprove of alcohol and I know that our local Methodist church does not allow it on the premises. But most people who attend it enjoy a drink (or two) and I think the same is true of my Quaker meeting house Friends.

Alcohol, I believe is a bit like money. It's not the actual substance that is the problem, it is how it is used. In moderation it can break the ice, get conversation going and help stressed folk relax. It's a pleasant accompaniment to a meal and often a nice ingredient.

But like other chemicals, it can alter your perceptions, judgement and behaviour, which is why it should be used carefully.

But I believe that we all need to decide for ourselves how to act. We cannot lead our personal lives based on what we think others believe about it.

nell

[Anthony]

I suppose that like most things it's a matter of moderation. Personally, I now have an intense aversion to alcohol and I detest the alcohol culture. I don't drink and have not done so for thirty years, but this was not because I objected to drink, I simply decided to try and do without it; I have no moral judgement on it but within the last twelve months I have had a delightful second cousin die of alcohol dependency - he was only thirty tree years old, and he left six lovely children. I visited an ex-work colleague in hospital the other week who nearly died of alcoholism, and may still do so. My brother is in the advanced stages of alcohol dependency, and I have a cousin who is alcoholic. I have alcoholic neighbours (and one neighbour lost her brother to it last year) and I see children drinking and drunk in the streets - some as young as fourteen. I can't abide being in the company of intoxicated people and cringe whenever I hear someone extolling its pleasure. And, it's getting worse! I loath the stuff, but I know this is not rational.

Incidentally, it is now nearly forty years since I spent the night in our local police cells for being drunk, but that's another story.

[Pulpculture]

[Hanna]

This isn't directly related to quakerism (so I'll understand if it gets moved/deleted) but some may find it interesting.

I read this story a while ago so I may not remember all the details correctly.

There was a lady who wanted to formally receive the five (buddhist) precepts/mindfulness trainings but was struggling with the last one, to refrain from taking intoxicants. She was talking to her teacher and said that she'd been drinking a glass of wine with dinner every day for the past 20 years, and it had never harmed her, so why should she stop?

The teacher told her that it was true one glass wasn't bad, and that she was lucky not to have the seed of addiction in her, but that maybe one of her children or friends weren't so lucky, and wouldn't be able to stop at just one glass. By not drinking she would be setting an example, showing it was okay not to drink, offering a respite from the pressure alcohol everywhere in her own home when her friends came by. She received the precepts the next morning.

I find the idea that we're practising not just for ourselves, but for everyone, very appealing. Others may not.

[ScottK]

Hanna, I personally like that!!! thanks for posting.

[Anthony]

[newyawka]

[XABI]