QuakerInfo.com Forum

[Fiona Sinclair]

I am not sure whether this ought to be a new topic, as it follows from what some people have been saying on the "unwelcoming" one. I will try it both ways and leave it up to the administrator.

A number of people mentioned unpunctuality. I wish that they would send their concerns on that subject to our local bus company.
Many of our members come by public transport, and many have to come a long way. Buses are few and far between on Sundays. Some areas do not even have a Sunday service, and others are lucky to get one an hour - which may not run to time.
Are people seriously suggesting that a family who may have had an hour's journey to get to meeting should be excluded from it because their bus arrived 10 minutes late ?
That strikes me as equally unQuakerly to locking the door.
If anyone is to be punished for the unpunctuality of the bus service, it should not be those who travelled on it. That might have been the only bus that ran from their village to the city on Sunday morning.

[wsamuel]

I don't think anyone is saying that, Fiona. People should make a good effort to get there on time, but others should understand that sometimes things interfere with succeeding on that, including late buses. I think most are advocating some approach that would minimize large numbers of interruptions by latecomers, while being accommodating to those who didn't make it on time.

Even though the stated explanation (which I agree doesn't make much sense) is not about this, your meeting is the only one I ever heard of that locked the door during meeting for worship. Believe me, this would shock most Friends.
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Bill Samuel, Webservant, QuakerInfo.com

[Harold]

When somebody arrives late, I usually thank God they arrived at all.

I can not, for the life of me, picture Christ locking the door.
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"The whole duty of humanity, from a Christian perspective is: To know God and to show God." -James Patterson

[Anthony]

Fiona, There is obviously a history to this problem and this is where eldering may be helpful. If someone is regularly arriving late (and it seems as if it is more than one person) then they should be approached by a responsible person (Elder?) and respectfully asked, in private, if there is a problem arriving to meeting on time. This should elicit the reasons, whatever they may be: late buses, etc. Hopefully, an understanding will be reached, perhaps an adjustment in the time of starting the meeting, if transport does not allow early arrival. If this is not possible, or has an unsatisfactory outcome, then surely one could then place the item on the agenda for Preparatory or Monthly Meeting and attend to discuss the issue. There seems to be a missing link to this tale.

[Fiona Sinclair]

Our clerk, (who also happens to be the convenor of the Monthly Meeting Elders), has stated categorically that she thinks that if people turn up late then they should not be admitted at all. This is regardless of whether they are first-timers, vistors, infrequent attenders or whatever. She says that they make a noise coming in. (They certainly will if they have to ring a doorbell to get in) and that if they find that the door is locked then they should just go away again.

She has also revealed that the reason behind her desire for a lock is that she only "feels at home" if she can leave her possessions strewn about the place (as she does at home) and would not feel comfortable if she had to keep her handbag next to her all the time. It does not occur to her that the Meeting is as much other people's home as hers, and that nobody feels at home on the outside of a locked door.

So who can elder the convenor of the Monthly Meeting Elders ?

There is certainly something wrong here, and I am inclined to think that it is something wrong with the criteria used for the selection of Elders.
Quaker meetings are few and far between here in the north of Scotland, and Elders have to be chosen from the small pool of people who have the time and money to make the long and expensive journeys to the necessary meetings. This requires considerably more time and money than it would do (for example) in the south of England. Some of the meetings in the MM are so far away that you can't get there and back the same day by public transport. That is leaving aside the question of travelling to London at any point.

Given that the small number of people available and the number of positions to be filled are roughly equal, no other criterion appears to be used, as far as I can see.

It has been suggested that this MM has more in common with Canadian meetings than English ones, for geographical reasons. Could somebody tell me how Canadian meetings manage about Elders. Do they have some process that does not involve them having to travel ?

[BillSamuel]

Maybe the best way to address the appropriateness of locking the door is to make inquiries to the appropriate yearly meeting bodies on whether there is a policy regarding this. I suspect they'll be shocked by this practice. I do not understand how Britain YM functions (but am aware that it appears to be substantially different than the norm in North America), but perhaps in some manner, formal or informal, the issue would be addressed if raised at a larger level. To raise it simply as an inquiry, noting the meeting's current practice without a lot of elaboration, would avoid a direct challenge and leave it to the larger bodies to take the initiative if they felt action was warranted. To raise it as a challenge would raise process issues.

In North America, unprogrammed meetings, except in Conservative Yearly Meetings, do not have elders as a rule. I can see nothing in Canadian YM Organization and Procedures suggesting that Monthly Meetings should have elders. The functions have sort of devolved upon committees, but these do not carry the authority that elders had.
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Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, MD, USA
Co-Coordinator, Friends in Christ

[newyawka]

[Jason Evans]

Our meeting begins at 1030, but our doorkeepers let folk in up to 1035 whereafter they wait in the foyer where there is a bench until the children come out at 1045.