QuakerInfo.com Forum

[Pulpculture]

Having read the Catholic Church is "trying to fast-track canonisation of Pope John Paul II" I find it Farcical what they are trying to do. Surely this goes against everything Jesus preached.

Sainthood bid opens for John Paul

A bid to make John Paul II a saint begins in earnest on Tuesday when the Vatican starts sifting possible evidence of a miracle by the late Pope.
Members of a special commission - including a latter-day "Devil's Advocate" whose job is to challenge any claim - will swear secrecy and probity.

Hundreds of letters and emails in praise of John Paul's holiness have already arrived, the Vatican said.

His case is being fast-tracked after Pope Benedict made a special ruling.

Normally, the procedure does not start until five years after death. Pope John Paul died less than three months ago.

John Paul himself had made an exception for Mother Teresa, two years after she died.

In the past, the BBC's Jeremy Bowen says, the process could take centuries.

Emails pour in

Pope Benedict is not expected to attend the ceremony in the St John Lateran basilica.

To canonise the late pontiff, the Vatican must find evidence of at least two miracles since his death - miraculous acts proven to have happened after a direct appeal to John Paul through prayer.

The Rev Giuseppe D'Alonzo, promoter of justice for the Diocese of Rome, will have the task of questioning such evidence.

Although he performs the duties of the Devil's Advocate, that actual post was done away with by John Paul in 1983 when he moved to simplify the process of canonisation.

Asked what he thought about making John Paul II a saint, the Rev D'Alonzo replied that it was not for him to decide, only to "verify the truth".

Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the main advocate for the late Pope's case, said last week he had received statements from across the world, with about 100 e-mails filling his inbox every day.

If a miracle is established, John Paul may be beatified, while a second miracle must then be proved for full canonisation.

As well as reading statements from believers, the commission will investigate John Paul's words and deeds to establish that he led a holy life.

Source
BBC
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I said don't forget Burma!

[John]

I don't think it much matters to John Paul II what people do here on earth.

[Stella]

Typical of the Catholic Church? But, not so typical of God' s teachings. As I understand it, we as humans honor God since no human can reach God's status. Humans are humans, though some have done worthwhile works that cannot be overlooked - but to put anyone on a pedestal is not what I want to do - so, guess I won't.

Sometimes there seems to me to be a fine line between honoring someone and giving them credit for their good deeds. Making someone a 'Saint' is not my ideal of honoring God. It smacks of worshipping another person.

(And, the scripture that says to watch doing acts of righteousness in view of men to see has had me stumped before, since sometimes there are people around while one rescues others, such as a drowning person. But, as I understand it it's the purpose for purely show that such a one would ever do any act of righteousness. But, to judge that anyone (pope or not) did not do acts of kindness for kindness sake is not something I need to do either.
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May we always focus on the Inner Light and
"Abide in Love"

[Shay]

Someone once said to me, "We are either all saints, or none of us are."

It is an interesting take on the idea.

[John]

Stella,

I quoted Matthew 6 to remind us all that it does not matter what other people think of our deeds, nor whether those deeds are publicly honored. What matters is how they appear to God and what is in our hearts when we do them. Those who would either grant or deny John Paul II human recognition of his good deeds and think that it matters one whit to God miss the point entirely.
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John Price

[wsamuel]

I'm a bit disturbed that a discussion was opened to attack something done by another Church, with no obvious relevance to Quakerism. Clearly this whole process of canonization is very foreign to Quaker ways.
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Bill Samuel, Webservant, QuakerInfo.com

[peggy parsons]

I think all willing souls are on the path to sanctification. Here is a link to a little bit I wrote for our local paper on sanctification and Grocery shopping. Perhaps amusing.

http://salemmonthly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=134&Itemid=92

Peggy Senger Parsons
pastor, Freedom Friends Church, Salem, Oregon
freedomfriends.org

[John]

I greatly enjoyed your peice, Peggy. Being just down the road at Reedwood I can picture the setting there in Salem.

I hope no one takes offense or misunderstands my prior posts on this topic. It's simply my position as a Quaker that whether other people call a person a saint is fairly irrelevant. All that matters is what's in one's heart and what God thinks of it.
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John Price

[dontracy]

[Taogypsy]

Because Quakers don't deal in saints, what does it matter. A Quaker cannot argue from a point of strength on this because it doesn't mean anything at all, in any way. Does it?

I suppose to the Catholic Church it would mean something? Maybe just creates a justification of all those stationed at the Vatican, but what does that matter to a Quaker?

But interesting that it should be a subject at all? As Bill suggested.
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If you think you understand a thing,
Your mind has ceased to function,
To make it work again, try to see it from the side of misunderstanding.
-- anon

[Diane]

While it is evident - perhaps self-evident - that many Friends here feel that their own religious way is preferable to those which others practice, humility would suggest that we all forbear from expressions suggestive of disdain for others' way of loving God.

"Friend, consider that you may be mistaken" is a deep ministry of our society.
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"Friend, consider that you may be mistaken."

[fastmail98]

I try to keep in mind Rufus Jones' suggestion that we go beyond disagreements over words and all move closer to God. All of us, regardless of our individual Faiths, are Children of God. Just as our eyes and hair and skin are different colors, just as we speak different languages, so we have different Faiths...but we are all of the same One. I'm certain just as we may gasp at certain practices in other Faiths, members of those other Faiths gasp at ours. We cannot all be on the same Path, but we can all be going to the same Place...fellow Seekers of the same One. Be well and at peace, my Good Friends...

Russ

[Shay]

I don't think saying, "I don't believe in saints" is derogatory any more than saying "I don't believe in communion with wafers" or "I don't believe in Kali" or "I don't believe in the devil" is derogatory. Taogypsy was speaking as a Quaker,, not the arbiter of ultimate truth!

[Patrocles]

The point about sainthood, that I really like. is the idea that there's a whole bunch of people (the ecclesia triumphans) standing, sitting, lying or flying around God. And if I want I can turn to someone and tell him: Dear friend, as long as I'm away, would you please tell God that-and-that from me.

Religion should never, never be something between "my God and I" alone.

[Taogypsy]