QuakerInfo.com Forum

[rocketsfan05]

I passed a lutheran church today and on its sign it said God Bless America. I always find that statement troubling, that whole idea that God loves one country more then another and blesses one even though we're all his children and nationalism is a man-made idea. For this reason, I also hate seeing flags on church grounds because they're places of god not just some land to claim for a country. Anyone else feel this way?

[michaeldavidjay]

mm... I'm uncomfortable with the flags too, however the prayer: "God Bless America" is no more offensive to me any more than the prayer: "God save the Queen" A prayer FOR a nation or leaders does not imply endorsement... at least not to me. To tell the truth, I remember to whisper a prayer for the politicians I think are doing everything wrong more often.
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Do Friends speak to today's condition, or are we only a historical footnote?

[BillSamuel]

God bless America can be an appeal for God to put one country above another, or it can be an appeal for God to bless one's own country without meaning that God should bless other countries any less. The song God Bless America asks that the country be guided by God, which is always something good to ask, and I do not object to it.
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Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, MD, USA
Co-Coordinator, Friends in Christ

[Anthony]

Usually, we only hear the first verse, so, I decided to check out the rest:

God Save the Queen (standard version)

God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen.
O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall.
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all.
Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign:
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice
God save the Queen
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"There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings, but they are communities like you" The Koran 6:38

[Kiahanie]

The Blessing we need most in this country (USA) is the gift of humility: knowing our righteous place among other nations; cognizance of our dependence on the plant, animal and mineral resources of the planet on which we reside; commitment to right sharing of those resources; and profound respect for the other 6 1/2 billion human beings with whom we share this planet.

I am also uncomfortable with "God Bless America" out of context. Too often the subtext is "...but damn those others all to hell." I agree with Bill, that Irving Berlin provided a proper context:


God bless America,
Land that I love,
Stand beside her and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above;

From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans white with foam,
God bless America,
My home, sweet home.
God bless America,
My home, sweet home.
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"There is a field out beyond right and wrong. I'll meet you there." --Jellaludin Rumi

[michaeldavidjay]

I stand corrected on "God Save the Queen". I did not realize how militant it was.
_________________
Do Friends speak to today's condition, or are we only a historical footnote?

[mds1207]

I tend to agree with Kiahanie that most institutionalized churches imply "God Bless America and damn everyone else (especially any that disagree with our policies or those that we're occupying). I am convinced that many congregants worship America, military, capitalism, et al and, if cornered would readily choose nationalism over Christianity. I'm always amazed of how the American flag has the place of honor (to the right of the speaker) and the "Christian" flag stand subservantly to the left.

I hope that through my Friends journey, God will forgive my silence as I sat in congregation after congregation that had a standing "bless our soldiers" without no regard, let alone mention, for the poor and innocent that normally suffer the most in any armed conflict.

My son turned me on to this several years ago and I hope that you are blessed by it...http://www.kingdomnow.org/95Theses.html

[Jim Wilson]

Good Friends:

I hope First Day finds you all well.

The dominant religion in the world today is Statism; worship of the State surpasses worship of God for many (most?) people. My immediate response to a church posting "God Bless America" is that they are likely to be idolators; that is worshippers of the State. I could be wrong, but I would be willing to bet money that such a public display is a symbol of misplaced priorities.

As for the flag in Church, I think it is a desecration.

Best wishes,

Jim
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www.shapingwords.blogspot.com

[McGuffey]

Separation of Church and State is still a relatively new concept, but we must give America, via the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights, a hearty applause for getting at least two things right; the freedom to worship as one pleases, and the constitutional protection of not being subjected to a state sponsored religion. If it is ever implied we were blessed by God the freedom to be Godless, it is still a blessing when considering the consequesces of being subject to a God not of one's choosing.

[mds1207]

[McGuffey]

It is always good to pay atention to church vs. state issues. School prayer and "creationism" taught in public schools are only a couple of recent historic examples of government intrusion into the religious beliefs of individual citizens. Recently, the United States Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs, Colorado, disicplined Christian pranksters who moved and altered a non-demoninational prayer circle which had pagan overtones. In Viriginia, I believe, an uproar was heard over a Muslim taking a oath of office over the Quaran instead of the Christian Bible, and a Islamic Temple building permit under reveiw in the city of Temecula, California is facing Christian opposition from the local Baptist Church becasue, well, it is Muslim ! And, in case you missed President Obama's inaguration ceremony, Pastor Rick Warren gave nothing resembling a interfaith or mulitcultural benediction speech- it was all to easy to assume his "Purpose Driven Life" was being touted for a "Purpose Driven Nation". Politics and religion will always be with us; the issues sometimes just slip through our consciensness.

[mds1207]

[McGuffey]

For Quakers who are history buffs, the "God Bless America" movement had its earliest origins due. perhaps, to a passage taken from a circular addressed to the Governers of the thirteen states, submitted by George Washingon on June 14, 1783, as he relinquished his role as Commander and Cheif of the Continental Army. It has since been given the title of "Washingtons Earnest Prayer". Washington wrote " I now make it my earnest prayer that God would have you, and the state over which you reside, in his holy protection; that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obediance to government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particulary for breathern who have served in the field, and finally that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demaen ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper fo mind, which were the charachteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, wna who without an humbel imitation of whose example int these things, we can never hope to be a happy nation". There are many "God and Country" advocates who desire formal government recognition of Chirstianity as our "national religion", but who fail to appreciate that the Founding Fathers used language that did not elevate Jesue of Nazareth to the role of Divine Author, Great Author, Providence, Providencial Agency, Benign Parent of Humanity or Almighty. They were essestially "Deiest" in their thought and language, and did not promote the cult of Jesus Christ as the role model for the founding of the country.