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kevin roberts



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 670
Location: more or less anywhere in america

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilgrim wrote:
Friend Kevin,

I'm interested in learning more about Theocracy in the Pennsylvania colony. Can you point me in the right direction?
hey pilgrim-

here's an interesting place to start. it's the constitution for the pennsylvania colony:

http://www.conservativefriend.org/pennsconstitution.htm

penn pretty well managed to write it up himself, in several parts. first, there was a portion written up in england, where penn spent almost all his life-- he was in pennsylvania i think a total of only two years or so.

the i think there was a second portion constructed in pennsylvania itself and appended to it.

each portion was fairly unorthodox, and the crown pretty well left penn alone except for the death penalty for treason (and murder?). there were a few other nits they stuck in, i think.

penn's preambles are the useful parts, where he explains his philosophy.

the colony lasted 70 or 80 years, and then crumbled around the time of what the anmericans call the french and indian war. much of the colony was full of scotch-irish, who had immigrated and then headed straight for the woods, avoiding the quaker settlements. they were quite happy to take up arms for the king, and eventually the quakers left the government and that was more or less that.

there are lots of stories about the decline and fall. penn's kids turned out very badly, and relations with the indians soured after bad land treaties. also, there have been stories of lots of political infighting and power struggles that i don't know anything more about, under the smooth and genteel veneer of quakerism.

but, it was a good try, and lots of stuff learned there is still around.

i don't know of any history books, but i'm sure the fgc bookstore or pendle hill will have something. don't know whether woodbrooke has a bookstore

go for it. tell us what you find
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BillSamuel



Joined: 06 Aug 2002
Posts: 770
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quakers have a varied history regarding participation in political systems. Quakers are said to have invented lobbying, and were very active in politics in the American colonies for some time.

In Pennsylvania, Friends officially withdrew from politics after the Pennsylvania legislature voted for war. A view that participation in the political system and in public policy efforts with non-Friends was "worldly" grew within American Quakerism, and that view was widely held between the late 18th and 19th centuries (after the schism, this was particularly common on the Hicksite side, although not totally absent from the Orthodox side). Some Friends were read out of meeting for participation in such "worldly" activities. There were meetings that split over the question of participating in anti-slavery activities with non-Friends. The "Progressive Friends" movement was a schism of a few decades in the Hicksite part of the spectrum in which those in this branch were active in the public policy arena and joined with others of like mind in such work. [Not the only matter behind the schism, but an important one in it.]

By the late 19th century, the pendulum began to swing and in the 20th century Friends pretty much across the spectrum were very active in public policy matters in the larger society.

In Britain, there were Friends with this Quietist view of political activity, but the predominant view was otherwise. During the time when Quietism was very strong in American Quakerism, British Friends (particularly those of a more evangelical perspective) were very active in the anti-slavery movement and a number of other social reform movements.
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Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, MD, USA
Co-Coordinator, Friends in Christ
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Jim Wilson



Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 59
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Friend Bill:

Thank you for the historical and learned summary. I wonder if you could refer me to specific works that were used to support the position of withdrawal, the view that was more contemplative and less activist? In some ways I think the pendulum has gone so far in the direction of political activism that the vision of contemplative understanding has become dim, or difficult, at times to access.

Thanks again for your assistance.

Jim
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