QuakerInfo.com Forum

[bradleyp]

Dear Friends

I would like the forums’ advice on constructing a plain look out of menswear found either on the rack at a store, or clothes that might already be found in a man’s closet.
Some might call it modern plain, but how would you suggest going about it.

Thanks in advance!
_________________
Bradley P.
Somewhere along the pathway back, the pathway forward, wherever it leads, I wish for an interesting walk.

[Gracie]

I like clothes from www.devalifewear.com -- well made, plain-ish, cottage industry clothes. Very easy care, too. Look under "uni-sex shirts" to find some old-fashioned styles, even. I wear the slacks and tank tops as the basis of my wardrobe, not so much to be plain but to reverse my lifelong, time- and self-esteem- wasting search for the perfect pair of jeans.
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http://sowingmildoats.wordpress.com

When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?
Eleanore Roosevelt

[Keith Maddison]

Dear Friend.

I keep to plain style of dress by wearing only solid colour shirts without a coller, always wear black pants, with bracers (suspenders) and a plane black jacket. I really makes life a lot simpler, when shopping or deciding what to wear.
_________________
Don't follow leaders and watch the parking meters, the pumps don't work because the vandals took the handles.
Keith

[james]

I can't think of any approach truer to the original *spirit* of plain dress than buying all your clothes at Goodwill, or some local inexpensive second-hand store, ideally one with non-profit or charitable connections. It won't make you *look* plain, but done thoughtfully it will allow you to dispense with distractions about looking good, and substantially reduce your footprint on the earth. Plus it will save you a bundle. It seems to me that even sweatshop goods bought second hand contribute less to oppression than almost anything you can buy new. But I think there's no way to live in society and separate oneself entirely from oppressive systems.
_________________
James Riemermann
www.nontheistfriends.org
www.liberalquakers.org

[james]

[pilgrim]

I am very much in agreement with what James is saying. I've read that one of the reasons Friends traditionally rejected colored fabrics was because slave labor was used in the dying process. In that case it would be very much in the same spirit to shop second hand, so as not to directly support modern sweatshop labor. I think that thrifting is the best option for many of us, unless we are in a position to make our own clothes and grow our own cotton.

If we go too far out of our way to purchase plain clothing, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of plainess?

[Shay]

I also make a point not to wear advertisements (store logos, brand names, etc) as much as possible- if you don't mind a woman's perspective.

One thing I think people should be careful of is being plain in a show of disrespect for others... I was reading about one Friend who wore a tshirt and jeans everywhere he went...including weddings and funerals. That seems to me to be missing the point of being simple for the goal of being a rebel for rebellion's sake.

Assuming you want to minimize fabric caretime, look presentable across a range of work and social functions, and not think about what you're wearing from day to day,some things you should be looking for are:

Natural fabrics. They will hang and drape better (meaning look nicer without endless ironing) and will probably last longer. You're going to have more outlay to begin with, but quality costs. My husband would add that 'preshrunk' is VERY important when dealing with natural fabrics.
Soft lines/easy tailoring- If you have a choice between a cuffed shirt and a straight sleeve, go for the straight sleeve. If there's a choice between buttons covered by a flap or not, go without. Pleats, tucks, collars, cuffs- all those will absolutely require ironing to look neat.
For pants- one folded-over pleat in the front is okay, it will help the pants hang nicely. Pockets shouldn't have any flaps or tabs- they'll just look messy later.
Look for softer colors- most colors fade anyway, so you don't want to try to match colors exactly, instead try to match saturation. Stay in earthy tones (butter yellow, mossy green, etc) and you should be fine. Or you can just pick a limited color palette- I actually dress in mostly blacks and grays with some dark purple items thrown in because I love purple.

The annoying thing about dressing simply (as I found out when I went back to work and needed to be both simple and office-presentable) is that you have to choose what you buy very carefully to begin with- it's very easy to veer too far into 'formal' or 'informal' when you're trying to pick clothes that will work whether you're in the backyard or at a formal dinner without making a special snowflake deal out of it. But once you've gotten everything chosen, it's a simple matter of picking two things out of the closet you know are presentable and will not reflect badly on my faith.

I hope this helps!

[Gracie]

good advice, Shay.

I'd like to add, in terms of thrift store/new, that the ability to "do" thrift stores also depends on your location/quality/quantity of thrift stores near you and your own size -- "average" folks have better luck at thrift stores (why yes, I am 6' tall). I also think we can choose to spend our money to support fair-US and fair trade manufacturers, which I what I try to do.
_________________
http://sowingmildoats.wordpress.com

When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?
Eleanore Roosevelt

[alternative82ni]

Ammmmmm.........I have a differnet perspective....


I think dressing plainly is actually dressing as you feel comfortable & happy. For me, that involves a few fashion trends and bit of punk influence, it comes naturally to me to dress like this. To dress as might universally be considered plainly wouldn't be plain to me, it would be strange. It would be strange due to the results of my cultural nurture.

The reasoning behind dressing plainly is 1/ not to distract from the real self & 2. not to consume valuable time (amongst other other points. i.e. sweatshops, which can be avoided these days due to media knowledge)

My slightly alternative clothing represents my self and consumes next to no time as it comes naturally. To make an effort to be 'commonly plain' would consume both time as it's not natural to me, and emotional energy as it's not the real/ true me.

Dressing in a manner which is not true to my personality and likes would also be a mis-representation of myself, and in a mild way, a lie (and a great cause of emotional torment @ not being how I naturally am due to nurture))

So to dress plainly I suggest just buying and wearing whatever you think looks good and whatever makes you feel good. Unless of course you want to be counter-productive to an wholistically healthy lifestyle. If you want to give yourself problems, go ahead a look for what you consider to be drab clothing..........(written with respect for the urge to give consideration)

To dress plainly I think is to dress as comes naturally, even if the 'dress-nature' is due to nurture.........otherwise so-called plain dressing would be acting-out as one supposes a 'good Quaker' should be even though it's not natural to oneself

Of course....there are those for whom the stereo-typical plain dress is natural......

[alternative82ni]

I support the whole thrift store thing as an excellent way to support community and recylcling and for those reasons to be preferred as much as possible......I'm not for wasting resources!!!!!!!!

[Shay]

[alternative82ni]

Hi there. .seems I may have been misunderstood. Maybe I wasn't clear.No I'm not in in my l8 teens, mid twenties. And my clothes are not about expressing my self to others, I am not interested in making a statement, just in dressing as I think looks good/ feels good/ feels comfortable. You will please notice that I didn't once mention how others view the way I dress, that's not what it's about. I'm not even really that interested in being noticed, my choice of clothes is simply directed by the fact that if I was me looking at me I want to know that I would think that I look good. And I also want my partner to think I look good of course. (& I'm not all that punk, edgy probably would have been a better choice of words, rather than expressing anything to others my choice of clothes allow me to feel connected to my artistic tastes, even if it's just ever so subtle, I think my use of the word punk confused the communication, my bad)


It's not that I'm confusing the simplicity of action with the actual simplicity of dress, but surely the simplicity of dress is so as to avoid distractions and mis-representation (a subject which I mentioned in my previous post) and the overt search to dress as one might stereotypically consider to be plain can actually be the cause of distraction. However, The simplicity of dress is actually all about how it plays out practically, and, in my opinion, everything we do within Quakerism is there for how it plays out in action, so we shouldn't seek to diverge action from the accompanying ethos.

Finally, we shouldn't overlook the fact that the original simplicity in dress of the early Quakers actually did have a whole lot to do with standing out and communicating something to others, particularly that one was a Quaker and that the Quakers were a 'separated' group. Something that I can categorically say I'm not interested in doing. I'm just the same as everyone else really.

The comparison from the cd/instrument analogy isn't particularly useful, learning the instrument will bring greater 'inner satisfaction', but take more work, dressing as one pleases will bring greater 'inner satisfaction', and require less work. I say that as someone who plays an instrument and dresses as I simply wish to.

Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to fruitful discussion.

[Shay]

[Gracie]

Well, Shay, at least you probably won't have to deal with him wanting a pony any time soon!

As for the plain clothing discussion, I must agree with Shay, alternative82n; your arguments seem to be based on self-justification or legitimizing. As one of my favorite contemporary religious writers, Molly Wolf, has said, "[following God] often calls on a person not to do what comes naturally, but often to do the exact opposite."

Which is not to criticize your wardrobe or why you chose to wear it (I like a touch of punk myself), but to point out that plain dress is a conscious decision. After all, the most simple, easy way to dress is to buy whatever is in fashion (i.e. easily available) at the time of the purchase -- into the store, out, and not thinking about it. Plain dress, however, is a conscious expression of the values of the wearer -- look at the (possibly mythical) story of William Penn and his wig and sword. Continuing to wear the markers of his rightful social class would have been much simpler and easier for him than discarding them to signal his membership in a religious sect held in much contempt at the time.
_________________
http://sowingmildoats.wordpress.com

When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?
Eleanore Roosevelt

[alternative82ni]

I am not intending to put down those who dress in a traditionally plain fashion. When I refer to the strange or drab appearance of the clothing i am referring to my perspective/ feeling towards that 'style.' And mine alone.

Neither am I trying to legitimize myself, I don't need any of that, I am legitimate in the fact that I exist.

With regards to following God I'll take this opportunity to say that I don't, I don't believe in God, not the entity anyhow, not outside of our minds. So I don't so much follow God as try to 'inhabit the concept of God.'

My choosing to partake in this conversation wasn't to defend myself, or to attack those who choose traditionally plain dress. I chose to participate in order to..........actually, it is about legitimizing the choice to dress as one likes, you guys are right, but not because it needs legitimizing, rather because I want to point out that it is legitimate and to make clear that dressing as, for example, I do, can, depending on the individual and their own perspective, be pro-spiritual, and that choosing to dress traditionally plain can in certain instances for certain people be counter-spiritual.

The choice for plain dress BTW can as much be about self-authenticating as anything else.

Yep...I think it's one of those things that can be, gently dismissed, for myself anyhow. I also think it's something that isn't really what it appears to be. But I am extremely liberal.

I suppose I may have been engaging in an unnecessary attempt to re-interpret the plain-clothing issue, when in reality for me, it is more of a non-issue. Good to talk things through though, for me that is Quakerism, space to work things through (I've just thought, maybe you guys are programmed, most of the meetings here arn't and so I tend to forget that 70% are.)