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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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merry mitchell quaker



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 56
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 4, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious for opinions. . . I suppose there is this industrial affect upon the ability to "feel" at some level, however, I've also seen the opposite (or perhaps a parallel) configuration.

For example, I have a neighbor who suffered some intense emotional pain over a period of several years. He rightly identifies and states openly that "he stopped 'living' years ago." In other words, his entire emotional range has been indefinitely put on hold, so to speak, so as to avoid feeling these intense grieving experiences.

Now, one thing I have noticed. As we spend time together, he does occassionally let down that barrier and experience grief. . . almost immediately he will go to his TV, turn the volume exceedingly high, and channel surf hypnotically; occasionally while simultaneaously making calls on his cell phone . . . I believe it is a way of "shutting down" those feared emotions. (It could be that I'm just boring to talk to Very Happy )

Is there not, perhaps, a two way street in this matter? Yes, perhaps industrial gadgets interrupt emotional abilities. . . but, mankind also seeks "oblivion" from those same emotions (there's Buddhist teaching on this, I think). . .and, of course, technology is a more common "drug" than possibly any other.

I personally like chocolate ice cream as far as "addictions" go. It gives me reason to feel that grief can be balanced with something truly wonderful. Perhaps teaching society to accept emotion and balance it against the abundance around us would reduce the desire for oppressive technology, and maybe even, reduce the destruction (or at least provide a better balance) of/in our natural world.
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orPowers



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 637
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Fri Jul 4, 2008 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all?" It is an interesting choice quite often, and I have more or less consciously made the decision both ways. After having "lost" I dug a hole and pulled it in after me, but found after some years that it was not really living (I must confess that it was the fact that someone I knew needed love that was the decisive factor). "Making friends" with feelings that are painful is not an easy choice, and we have had ways to keep from doing so as long as we have recorded history, so I tend to think that the "gadgetry" and so forth is more a choice of hiding place than it is a cause of cutting off feelings.
The point is well made that consumer culture is destroying the environment, and that it offers distraction from "real" life on an unparallelled level, but is it a cause of that detachment and mental decay? As Kevin indicated, we have to "be the change that we desire to see."

In His Love,
orPowers
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MettaMaid



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Fri Jul 4, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sushil has appeared in every single forum I have ever visited, and posts the same thing again, and again, and again, and again....zzzzzzz

If this is the only forum you, my good Quaker friends frequent, you won't understand the significance of this, but it is wearisome to periodically read the same blah-blah everywhere one goes....

What I'd like to know is what exactly he - or she - is doing themselves to redress the balance....

Always with the long posts, always with the doomesday predictions.... Rolling Eyes

Ah well.... and on......and on.....and on...... Wink
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Ailsa



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 181
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Jul 4, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that information dear Friend.

I had rather wondered as the post was almost identical to the one in September.

I suppose there are people in this world who have nothing better to do but fortunately I am not one of them.

And there is a little point in there - although one cannot un-invent the wheel, one can eschew the unnecessary trivia and consumerism of modern life. We try to do so as much as possible, making the consumables our servants, not our masters.

And without our computers, we friends would not be exchanging views on here, would we?
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kevin roberts



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 768
Location: more or less anywhere in america

PostPosted: Fri Jul 4, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ailsa wrote:

And without our computers, we friends would not be exchanging views on here, would we?


That's true, but my own computer comes and goes, you know. I had email back in 1986, and gave it up for twenty years, I think. Limited recipients back then, of course. There was no internet mostly.

I do a lot with it for now, but it may disappear from my life once more. I know people who traded graduate educations for horse transportation and gas lights.

Gas lights are not progress. Very dim, even when working right.
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Sat Jul 5, 2008 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MettaMaid wrote:
Sushil has appeared in every single forum I have ever visited, and posts the same thing again, and again, and again, and again....zzzzzzz

If this is the only forum you, my good Quaker friends frequent, you won't understand the significance of this, but it is wearisome to periodically read the same blah-blah everywhere one goes....

What I'd like to know is what exactly he - or she - is doing themselves to redress the balance....

Always with the long posts, always with the doomesday predictions.... :roll:

Ah well.... and on......and on.....and on...... :wink:



What are you doing visiting so many forums?

If you can visit many forums then I can surely post on many forums.

I have not gone around posting at random. I have always posted in forums that are relevant to my article/ related to keywords in my article.

You see the same people in your office every day. You don't have any problem with that. Why don't you go and tell your boss "How many times am I going to see you?"

You see the same family members every day at home. You have no problem with that.

You see the same cars on the road everyday. You have no problem with that.

But if you see my article at many forums you start behaving as if the sky is falling down.

Is anyone pointing a gun at you and forcing you to read my thread? If you have read my article at other places you just ignore it here - it is as simple as that.

sushil_yadav

Corrupt
ePhilosopher
ForeignPolicy
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sun Jul 6, 2008 1:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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MettaMaid



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Sat Jul 5, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is, all these things I see and do habitually don't sound like a stuck record. I see the same people every day, I visit many forums. The difference is that they add variety.
You don't.

You're posting the same thing year on year.

And you haven't answered my question.
If you are so concerned about all of this - what are you personally doing to reverse the problem, other than saying the same thing, over and over and over again - everywhere?
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Shay



Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 885

PostPosted: Sat Jul 5, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:
But if you see my article at many forums you start behaving as if the sky is falling down.

Is anyone pointing a gun at you and forcing you to read my thread? If you have read my article at other places you just ignore it here - it is as simple as that.

sushil_yadav


Pointing out someone is copy-pasting long posts in various places with identical messages is hardly acting like the sky is falling down.

If you would like to be treated as a person rather than a posting then you need to engage with people other than just presenting the same information over and over again. Usually when that's done it's called 'spamming,' even if it's not trying to sell something.
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Sat Jul 5, 2008 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MettaMaid wrote:


And you haven't answered my question.
If you are so concerned about all of this - what are you personally doing to reverse the problem, other than saying the same thing, over and over and over again - everywhere?



Why don't you post a list of all the consumer goods and services that you are using?

I will post my list.

And then we shall compare to find out who is a bigger burden on earth.

sushil_yadav

Corrupt
ePhilosopher
ForeignPolicy
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sun Jul 6, 2008 1:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Sat Jul 5, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shay wrote:
sushil_yadav wrote:
But if you see my article at many forums you start behaving as if the sky is falling down.

Is anyone pointing a gun at you and forcing you to read my thread? If you have read my article at other places you just ignore it here - it is as simple as that.

sushil_yadav


Pointing out someone is copy-pasting long posts in various places with identical messages is hardly acting like the sky is falling down.

If you would like to be treated as a person rather than a posting then you need to engage with people other than just presenting the same information over and over again. Usually when that's done it's called 'spamming,' even if it's not trying to sell something.


I suggest you go through the entire thread once again. You will find that I have engaged in discussion with many members.

By the way, why do you read the same newspaper that goes to millions of homes? You should be putting that in the category of "copy paste" and spam as well.

How much time do you normally spend on a single post? -- a few minutes?

It has taken me almost 15 - 20 years to understand and write the content of my article. What you are referring to as "copy paste" and spam has taken me years to write. My single article is equivalent to thousands of posts. Do you get that?

sushil_yadav

Corrupt
ePhilosopher
ForeignPolicy
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sun Jul 6, 2008 1:01 am; edited 3 times in total
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Shay



Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 885

PostPosted: Sat Jul 5, 2008 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:
It has taken me almost 15 - 20 years to understand and write the content of my article. What you are referring to as "copy paste" and spam has taken me years to write. My single article is equivalent to thousands of posts. Do you get that?

sushil_yadav


Not really. I mean, I've tried getting to the meat of your posts, honestly, but the odd formatting, the reliance on bolding, and the redundancy of what you're saying made it hard. I'm sure you chose every word and choice deliberately, but I'm afraid that what you're trying to say is not coming across the way you probably mean it to.

I will have to disagree with you that one post can take the place of millions. I feel that the best way to get a message across is not to present it whole and entire, but rather to present yourself, become someone who is respected, and demonstrate what you have to say. The other day I was talking to someone who believed we were at war for good reasons, and perversely argued that "the reason the Middle East hates us is everyone wants what we have. Well, now they're getting it." I suggested that democracy is more contagious by example and reason than by force- that the only way for a country to be lastingly 'free' is by majority support when they've been convinced it's in their best interests. Another example is Judaism. There are hardly any evangelical Jewish people. The way it was explained to me was, "If someone thinks we're doing good, I would rather they be inspired to do good than be inspired to be Jewish." There's a humbleness there, a thought that the result is more important than the system it sprang from, and thus, a disconnection from the identity of "I am good" to instead, "This is good." You can force someone to do the right thing. You can't force them to want to do the right thing.

Obviously, you're not forcing anyone to read what you wrote. However, the principle is the same- that an authoritative display is off-putting, not inspiring. Phrases like, "Do you get that?" and "we shall compare to find out who is a bigger burden on earth," smack of someone who has already made up their mind that they are better than everyone else, if only those poor deluded souls would realize their error.

Discussion is not the same as lambasting, and lecturing is not the same as engaging. If you want to get your message across you might be better off using humor or a more understanding tone. As a matter of fact, there's a great short film here: http://www.storyofstuff.com/ that addresses many of the issues you raise, but does so in a non-offensive manner. (And I use offensive as in- the opposite of defensive, not that I am offended by the content.)

By the bye- articles are not really the same as message board posts. Actually, if you had come on the forum, said, "Hi, I wrote this piece (link) and am interested in what you have to say about it!" it would have been recieved a lot better. A very good example of this is Anthony here on the boards- though we disagree on a lot of fundamentals over years (oh, has it been years?) I've grown to appreciate that he is a man for a message- not a message for a man. And that's really important on the web, especially when you're presenting your opinion, especially in this age of bots, spammers, and trolls. If no one knows who you are, why you've come to these conclusions, than it looks like more online flotsam and attention-seeking declarations.

I am sure that's not your intention. It's just how you're coming off to me with your posting style. Is that a better representation of how I feel? I don't want to make you feel attacked, I'm honestly trying to give you constructive feedback as someone who has seen your posts and not gotten what you're really trying to say because the method was so much in the way.
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Sun Jul 6, 2008 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shay wrote:

I mean, I've tried getting to the meat of your posts, honestly, but the odd formatting, the reliance on bolding, and the redundancy of what you're saying made it hard. I'm sure you chose every word and choice deliberately, but I'm afraid that what you're trying to say is not coming across the way you probably mean it to.

I'm honestly trying to give you constructive feedback as someone who has seen your posts and not gotten what you're really trying to say because the method was so much in the way.


If you don't understand my posts it is your problem not mine.

Once again I suggest you go through the thread again. You will find many people who have understood the content.

sushil_yadav

Corrupt
ePhilosopher
ForeignPolicy
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Sun Jul 6, 2008 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shay



Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 885

PostPosted: Sun Jul 6, 2008 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:
If you don't understand my posts it is your problem not mine.

Once again I suggest you go through the thread again. You will find many people who have understood the content.

sushil_yadav


This is pretty much exactly what I was saying- you're arguing from a point of self-righteousness, rather than explaining your views in a way people can relate to.
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Sun Jul 6, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shay wrote:
sushil_yadav wrote:
If you don't understand my posts it is your problem not mine.

Once again I suggest you go through the thread again. You will find many people who have understood the content.

sushil_yadav


This is pretty much exactly what I was saying- you're arguing from a point of self-righteousness, rather than explaining your views in a way people can relate to.


You don't seem to get the point. You are not the only person on this board. There are hundreds of other members and guests - many of whom have understood the content of my article and posts.

sushil_yadav
Corrupt
ePhilosopher
ForeignPolicy
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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Shay



Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 885

PostPosted: Sun Jul 6, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:
You don't seem to get the point. You are not the only person on this board. There are hundreds of other members and guests - many of whom have understood the content of my article and posts.

sushil_yadav
Corrupt
ePhilosopher
ForeignPolicy
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Really? Okay. Alright then... good luck, sushil! I've got both hands balled in fists cheering you on here, by golly gosh.

Edit- BTW- spamming is still frowned on in online society.
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