QuakerInfo.com Forum

[JohnOR3]

Are there Quakers who are Freemasons ? Is the Masonic fraternity compatable with Quaker ideals?

[Keith Maddison]

It must be, as everything is acceptable to liberal Quakerism.
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Don't follow leaders and watch the parking meters, the pumps don't work because the vandals took the handles.
Keith

[BillSamuel]

Historically a Quaker would be read out of meeting for joining the Masons. There was a strong testimony against secret societies.

Today this has been relaxed, as much has been relaxed. But in response to the other comment, most of the time when I have learned of Quakers being Masons they were not liberal Quakers. Culturally, I think liberal Quakers are less attracted by such societies.
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Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, MD, USA
Co-Coordinator, Friends in Christ

[Dan]

Friend,

May I ask thee why one would want to be a Mason?

Historically, Bill is correct, you were read out of meeting if you joined a secret society. Some of us still do "read them out of meeting"

Have you studied Masonry?

I picked up their handbook at a second hand store just for reference. The oath is hideous. We Friends do not believe in swearing oaths, on that grounds alone, thee can not be a Mason.

Secondly, Could thee kneel down and call a man your "worshipful master"? God is our worshipful master, not a man. We did not even believe in titles such as Mr. , Sir, etc. We refused to bow to the king or queen. My own ancestors rotted in prison by refusing to pay homage to an earthly king iso how could we as Friends and above that as Christians bow to a man, and call him things only God should be called.

I pray the Light of God will guide thee in all spiritual discernment and truth.

Thy Friend,
Dan

[JohnOR3]

Dear Dan, I thank you for your honest and considerate response. I never said that I wanted to be a mason, and I am new to Quakerism. I plan on asking to become a member of the meeting I attend, but as of yet I am not a full member. The reason I brought the subject up was that I had read about the Masonic rule in their lodges of professed beleif in God , but the worship of the supreme being is left to the man's concience. I thought that sounded like the Quaker belief in God. That personal experience was to dictate the Man's actions, following the light. I just thought that these were somehow similar beliefs, but looking at the importance of titles and oaths I see the differences.

I do agree heartily with what you stated here: "We refused to bow to the king or queen. My own ancestors rotted in prison by refusing to pay homage to an earthly king iso how could we as Friends and above that as Christians bow to a man, and call him things only God should be called.

I pray the Light of God will guide thee in all spiritual discernment and truth."


Thank you Dan.
John.

[clifflad]

An interesting topic to me as a Freemason for 22 years and a member of the Society of Friends for 12 years. Much of what is said on this forum on the subject is either grossly exagerated or probably untrue. Since being a Quaker I have affirmed my Masonry ceremony obligations and my ceremony books are prefaced with "form of obligation for a Quaker candidate". An overseer in my own Meeting is a senior active Freemason although it was some years before I knew he was a memer of the fraternity.

Friend John Satterthwaite was born 22nd day of 6th month 1786 and grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. He was the son of William and Mary (Knight) Satterthwaite. He settled in the area of Waynesville in 1803. Here he met his wife Elizabeth Linton.
He was a very industrious and hardworking pioneer and highly respected. In partnership with William Worden, they established The Accommodation Stage Coach Line between Cincinnati and Springfield in 1827. His farm on the Stage Road just outside of Waynesville was a changing place for the horses and hostel for the teamsters hauling freight from Lima, Sidney, Piqua, Troy and elsewhere. The Satterthwaite House is on National Register of Historic Places: 88000239 (3/30/1988). He was a township trustee and he built a number of bridges in the area: one across Newman’s Run and the bridge across the race going to Jennings Mill in 1824. He built the first covered bridge across the Little Miami River at Waynesville. He also set up a general store in Waynesville (Satterthwaite & Linton). He was the contractor and builder of the Friends' White Brick Meetinghouse (Miami Monthly Meeting of the Society of Friends in Waynesville, Ohio) , mills at Waynesville and Mt. Holly (a gristmill in 1818) and several homes in Waynesville. He is considered one of the founders of Mt. Holly as well as Joseph Chenoweth who also built a mill at Mt. Holly in 1815. The Satterthwaite building on Main Street is now the Braden Candy Shop (http://www.waynesvilleshops.com/braden_sons/) . The Satterthwaite farm was also noted for its orchards, which boasted of fifteen different varieties. John Satterthwaite was a Justice of the Peace from between 1813-1833.

John Satterthwaite was also very active in the Lebanon Lodge No. 26, F & A.M. According to the Warren County, Ohio History of 1882 (Chicago, IL: W. H. Beers Co, 1882; reprint, Mt. Vernon, IN: Windmill Publications, 1992, p. 501), he was also a charter member of The Lebanon Royal Arch Chapter, No. 5 that was chartered on December 12, 1821. He was a charter member of The Miami Encampment, No. 2, K. T. at Lebanon that was chartered on March 14, 1826. At the time it was most unusual for a Quaker to be a member of the Freemasons let alone an officer. Actually, the time from the 1820s-1840s was a time of persecution of the Freemason in this county, i.e. the Anti-Masonic Party that did almost destroy Masonry in this country. No record exists of him being the Master of this Blue Lodge (the records are incomplete), but he was elected Grand Master of Ohio in January of 1831 (http://freemason.com/PGM/john_satterthwaite.htm). He died on Jul.y 5th, 1837 and is buried in the Miami Monthly Meeting Friends Hicksite graveyard in Waynesville (burial July 6th, 1837, First Row, #39). His gravestone is the largest in the graveyard and is emblazoned with the Masonic Square and Compass.

John Satterthwaite was just one of very many early Friends who were Freemasons and I can give scores of names if required

I do not find any conflict personally with my dual mebership.

In Friendship
Cliff[/list]

[JohnOR3]

Thank you for such a detailed response. It is particularly interesting to me as I live in Bucks county. This is the answer I was looking for, a reference to anyone who was both a Quaker and Freemason.
I found the philosophy somewhat similar in both groups referring to the guide of ones conscience and the Light.

John.

[Diane]

I have not heard the phrase "read out of meeting" before. Once or twice our regional meeting has had to appoint elders to tell a member that their chosen way in life is felt to be so much at odds with our Testimony that to retain them in Meeting would be improper.

What happens on such occasions in other meetings, and what exactly is read to the person?

On the matter of referring to some other person's actions before one - remember Adam quoted Eve's actions as precedent... it didn't seem to impress. "Friend, what cans't thou say"?

[BillSamuel]

I'm not sure of the origin of the phrase. Basically it simply means membership terminated by action of the meeting. As far as I've heard, the general practice is for a member to be labored with to see if they might come back into unity with the meeting, and if such efforts are not fruitful, a minute is approved terminating their membership. Perhaps, and this is only speculation, the phrase comes from an appropriate person in the meeting informing the individual of the action by reading them the minute approved by the meeting.

Today, I think in most cases the action would be transmitted by mail to the person, and the letter would state the minute. There might be oral communication as well.

Although, at least in the United States, termination of membership was once quite common and was a major reason Quakers became a minor religion in terms of numbers, today it seems to be pretty rare in most parts of Quakerdom. I was for a long time member of a meeting that only has done it once, to the best of my knowledge. That was the case of someone who became a member while imprisoned, and who returned to his criminal ways after release.

There is also a practice, I think not usually referenced in Books of Faith and Practice, of barring some people from meeting for worship. Historically, those "read out of meeting" were generally welcome to continue attending. Some people are felt by their meetings to be so disruptive to meeting for worship that they are barred. If members, they are generally also read out of meeting, but in some cases they have never joined. This practice is quite rare, and the cases I have heard about are mostly confined to a very few geographical areas (New England, Australia).
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Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, MD, USA
Co-Coordinator, Friends in Christ

[clifflad]

I would be genuinely interested to know of any record where a Fiend was "read out of Meeting" owing to membership of Freemasonry, or a secret society (which Freemasonry is definitely not) come to that.
In Friendship
Cliff
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"Anger and haste hinder good counsel"

[BillSamuel]

The Other Islanders: People Who Pulled Nantucket's Oars, by Frances Ruley Karttunen, says (p. 230):

[clifflad]

Thank you for the reply Bill - I will try to get hold of the book as it should be an interesting read.
I will add this one last long post as it does give a true insight into Freemasonry. It is the talk given to every new Mason on being initiated into the order. The secrets are simply the ancient means that stonemasons proved there status and qualifications in their itinerant lifestyle. There are no so called secrets relating to membership.


Brother …, as you have passed through the ceremony of your initiation, let me congratulate you on being admitted a member of our ancient and honourable institution. Ancient no doubt it is as having subsisted from time immemorial, and honourable it must be acknowledged to be, as by a natural tendency it conduces to make those so who are obedient to its precepts. Indeed, no institution can boast a more solid foundation than that on which Freemasonry rests; the practice of every moral and social virtue. And to so high an eminence has its credit been advanced that in every age monarchs themselves have been promoters of the art, have not thought it derogatory to their dignity to exchange the sceptre for the trowel, have patronised our mysteries and joined in our assemblies.
As a Freemason, let me recommend to your most serious contemplation the Volume of Sacred Law; charging you to consider it as the unerring standard of truth and justice and to regulate your actions by the divine precepts it contains. Therein you will be taught the important duties you owe to God, to your, neighbour and to yourself. To God, by never mentioning His name but with that awe and reverence which are due from the creature to his Creator, by imploring His aid in all your lawful undertakings, and by looking up to Him in every emergency for comfort and support. To your neighbour, by acting with him on the square, by rendering him every kind office which justice or mercy may require, by relieving his necessities and soothing his afflictions, and by doing to him as in similar cases you, would wish he would do to you. And to yourself, by such a prudent and well-regulated course of discipline as may best conduce to the preservation of your corporeal and mental faculties in their fullest energy, thereby enabling you to exert those talents wherewith God has blessed you, as well to His glory as the welfare of your fellow creatures.
As a citizen of the world, I am to enjoin you to be exemplary in the discharge of your civil duties, by never proposing or at all countenancing any act that may have a tendency to subvert the peace and good order of society, by paying due obedience to the laws of any State which may for a time become the place of your residence or afford you its protection, and above all, by never losing sight of the allegiance due to the Sovereign of your native land, ever remembering that nature has implanted in your breast a sacred and indissoluble attachment towards that country whence you derived your birth and infant nurture.
As an individual, let me recommend the practice of every domestic as well as public virtue: let Prudence direct you, Temperance chasten you, Fortitude support you, and Justice be the guide of all your actions. Be especially careful to maintain in their fullest splendour those truly Masonic ornaments, which have already been amply illustrated; Benevolence and Charity.
Still, as a Freemason, there are other excellences of character to which your attention may be peculiarly and forcibly directed: amongst the foremost of these are Secrecy, Fidelity and Obedience. Secrecy consists in an inviolable adherence to the Obligation you have entered into; never improperly to disclose any of those Masonic secrets which have now been, or may at any future period be, entrusted to your keeping, and cautiously to avoid all occasions which may inadvertently lead you so to do. Your Fidelity must be exemplified by a strict observance of the Constitutions of the fraternity, by adhering to the ancient landmarks of the Order, by never attempting to extort or otherwise unduly obtain the secrets of a superior degree, and by refraining from recommending anyone to a participation of our secrets unless you have strong grounds to believe that by a similar fidelity he will ultimately reflect honour on your choice. Your Obedience must be proved by a strict observance of our laws and regulations, by prompt attention to all signs and summonses, by modest and correct demeanour in the Lodge, by abstaining from every topic of political or religious discussion, by a ready acquiescence in all votes and resolutions duly passed by a majority of the brethren, and by perfect submission to the Master and his Wardens whilst acting in the discharge of their respective offices.
And as a last general recommendation, let me exhort you to dedicate yourself to such pursuits as may at once enable you to be respectable in life, useful to mankind, and an ornament to the society of which you have this day become a member; to study more especially such of the liberal Arts and Sciences as may lie within the compass of your attainment, and without neglecting the ordinary duties of your station, to endeavour to make a daily advancement in Masonic knowledge.
From the very commendable attention you appear to have given to this charge, I am led to hope you will duly appreciate the value of Freemasonry. and indelibly imprint on your heart the sacred dictates of Truth, of Honour, and of Virtue

I honestly believe that Quakers and Masons have much in common.

In Friendship

Cliff
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"Anger and haste hinder good counsel"

[BillSamuel]

1. Apparently they have a scripture, the Volume of Sacred Law. Thereby they are another religion, and Quakers historically do not allow dual membership.

2. The text references the "secrets" supporting the traditional Quaker objection to the Freemasons as a secret society.

Cliff presents evidence adequate to support the traditional bar on Quakers being Freemasons.
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Bill Samuel, Silver Spring, MD, USA
Co-Coordinator, Friends in Christ

[clifflad]

That is your view Bill but not mine or that of many other Fiends. I have sat on Natonal Quaker committees, including the Testimonies Commitee of Britain Yearly Meeting, where Friends have been well aware of my active mebership of Masonic lodges.
I am I guess, on the liberal wing of Friends and a professed Universalist. My Volume of the Sacred Law is the Kings James version of the Old and New Testaments. When a Jewish brother is working in the lodge the Torah is on the pedestal and when a Moslem is working (and there are Moslem members) the Koran is on the pedestal, and so on. A good description of the make up of members of a Masonic lodge can be found in Rudyard Kipling's poem "The Mother Lodge". My spiritual journey has take me from a loving upbringing in a Pentostal Christian home to my committment to Friends who do have a creed to which, in honesty, I cannot subscribe.

I do not accept that Masonry is a religion - it is an organisation that requires its members to have religion - atheism is a bar to membership.

In Friendship

Cliff
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"Anger and haste hinder good counsel"

[clifflad]

Sorry -correction - "do NOT have a creed" Cliff
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"Anger and haste hinder good counsel"