QuakerInfo.com Forum

[wsamuel]

Lately I have felt it necessary to delete a couple of posts which didn't seem to be in the spirit of open dialogue. Let's try to refrain from snide remarks, insults and self-righteous defensive comments, OK?
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Bill Samuel, Webservant, QuakerInfo.com

[paul la c]

He's got a very good point, Friendlink, a message board for younger quakers has recently had to make very major changes (some of which not in exactly fovouring free speech) to avoid flaming from thoose who aren't respecting the way these forums are run
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[Jimmy Mac]

Wishing Everyone A Christmas Filled With Peace and Goodwill.

Peace and Prayers,

Jimmy Mac
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Meeting Makers Make It

[Patrocles]

Bill,

I think it's easy for me to avoid snide remarks or insults. As for self-righteous defensive comments, that's somewhat more difficult.

Firstly, I shouldn't publish any idea if I didn't (self-righteously) think that it was presumably right. Secondly, I'm used to a style of discussion where we well try to find refutations or falsifications of our ideas - but where we maintain an idea until it is actually falsified (we wouldn't give it up in order to be nice or to avoid unpleasantness).

It is implied that ideas are no man's personal property - under different circumstances my "opponent" might be the "proponent" of that same idea, whereas I might be the "opponent". So nobody must be personally unhappy if he has "lost" that kind of debate.

I describe that style of discussion (in an understandable way, as I hope) in order to find out if it is compatible with Quaker mores as well as with your wishes for this forum. Perhaps you could find a way to show me more precise what kind of "self-righteous defensive comments" you want to avoid.

[wsamuel]

I continue to occasionally delete posts for which the tone seems unacceptable. For those who persistently violate the guidelines, I do once in a while ban individuals from posting. I do not normally announce these actions. I allow a full range of views to be expressed, as long as they have some tie to the purpose of the Forum, but I will continue to try to foster dialogue rather than personal attacks.
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Bill Samuel, Webservant, QuakerInfo.com

[Diane]

For some time I have felt - and expressed elsewhere - a concern that the principle of the 'forum'-style is inherently incompatible with the Quaker way. It assumes, for example, that what is right or true is a matter of whose personal view 'triumphs', who brings the majority over to their own position, and so forth.

The means by which individuals achieve that (tactit) goal is - it seems to me - what will always cause a tendency towards personal comments, denigration of others, self-righteousness and so on.

How we can have online discussions... which are doubtless able to be very fruitful, and allow Friends of all kinds, and all places, to come together... is presently something I am wondering and praying about.

For the meantime I must say I feel we are being rightly, and well, 'eldered' by our moderator here. Let us try to remember that this is not a school playground, nor behave like untutored children when in it.
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"Friend, consider that you may be mistaken."

[Taogypsy]

It's probably not so for everyone, but I am seeking, learning; a tyro trying to discover of what is the universe all it contains and my humble position therein. So the forum for me is much of self discovery, and trying to make whole the things that I think I think and have a slight handle on. With the help of expressed ideas and thoughts, I can sometimes grip with more surety a thing that I have otherwise had only a tenuous grasp upon.

So there is no reason to be abusive, but a reason to ask the questions honestly.

I never really look back on my own posts but on the subject to see what has happened, so have no doubt that some of my posts might have been deleted by the moderator.

However to discover, some questions must be pushed a little further, and may not appear polite. Further to this, no one can hurt another unless they are permitted this privilege, and none of us, even if we knew each other personally would know when we produce something in word, written or spoken, or in deed that another may not like. The reason being obvious of course, because not everyone reacts to the slight, real or imagined. They take their umbrage into a place where they feel it safe to display it. Sometimes to muse on their own, sometimes to discuss it with those they think are of a like mind.

I would imagine being a moderator is difficult. However because I don't believe in censorship, I also don't believe in moderation. I realise that this is not a public forum, because of moderation. It is a semi public forum, channeled through the filters of what the moderator considers appropriate. I think you would agree Bill? We can discover more about people when we see them as they are, rather than what we allow them to show. In this way we can show or refuse to show approval. Better than praise, criticism allows us to know more about the person displaying it.

It becomes difficult on a public forum, because as out on the street, people won't display their feelings and certain won't get involved and run to anothers aid. If someone posted something inappropriate then those who disagreed, could just post something like "uncalled for and not required". However, we are not a society that believes in community, so we have police to do what communities would do in the past. Take responsibility for their members.

Be well,
Charlie
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If you think you understand a thing,
Your mind has ceased to function,
To make it work again, try to see it from the side of misunderstanding.
-- anon

[Rebecca]

There are definitely some things floating around on the internet written by me that I'm not proud of. When I first started posting at various forums (mainly music in the beginning) I was absolutely appalled at how nasty people are to each other - far worse than they'd be in real life, it seemed to me. Why? I aways thought it was because you don't have to really deal with the social consequences of what you say, like you would in real life, when you have to look at a person's face after they hear you; and where those you hurt might choose to leave you out of their life. But in spite of knowing that, I found myself infected by it too, and now I wonder if that way of speaking to people is going to become more and more common in regular society. So this I see kind of as training in getting back to communicating the way I want to communicate. It's a real discipline. I have strong opinions, as I'm sure everyone does, but I also think part of the reason for hostility other places is frustration over not feeling heard. Seems that learning to express oneself kindly can be a life-long process. A lot of people just shut up rather than disagree, and since it's not always about one's own opinion, that's a good alternative at times, but it isn't the best alternative all the time.

[CelticNorth]

I am generally opposed to any type of censorship, and think that the job of moderating any forum posses difficulties for the site administrator, no matter who she or he may be, or what forum topic is being discussed. While we are free to disagree, personnal attacks are quite rare here, and those are the types of posts that everyone should agree, be deleted.

[orPowers]

I think it helps to reiterate what Taogypsy said about not being able to see "tone" (except of course in personal insults) and the need to be able to ask tough questions and answer them in a simple straightforward manner. Refraining from making personal remarks or "self-righteous defensive comments" is a good thing to do, but I think we must also refrain from taking umbrage where none is intended. Perhaps Paul's description in the 13th chapter of 1 Corinthians of love as not being easily offended is a good guideline.
In His Love,
orPowers
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Romans 8:38-39

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